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User talk:Unevent
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TehAnonymous (talk) 20:32, May 28, 2013 (UTC) Response to feedback on my Sion rework concept *Pains seem to have been taken to maintain AP Sion as a viable build path, even though with this rework he'll play essentially identically to AD Sion. Therefore... why? I asked this myself. AP Sion will have a larger shield and CDR is easier to itemize simultaneously with damage on AP. Furthermore, there is much greater potential for AoE damage. Both are sustained damage dealers, but the AD version will deal the bulk of its damage in single-target damage and have high sustain, while the AP version will dish out mostly AoE damage, have noticeably higher burst, and have a larger shield. I included it mostly because I thought I could get away with it, but I would have no problem with either version getting axed if it meant the other survived. *...weird things like E replacing an AA and scaling off AD stats, but not proccing lifesteal. This leads to a conflicted purpose - AD Sion wants to use it for more damage and CC, but loses the lifesteal when his thing is being a lifesteal tank, The E active not proccing lifesteal is consistent with any ability that doesn't proc on-hit effects; many AD champions in League deal with this. Also, it's ultimately a small portion of an AD Sion's total DPS, but now that you mention it, I can see an anti-combo scenario where the player will not want to use E so that he doesn't miss out on an AA of lifesteal. I can see scaling it with his normal AA damage. *The addition of an MS buff and a slow to W feels unnecessary when you've given him a large gapcloser and another slowing ability already. Particularly given that you've massively buffed the shield strength. I am also worried the shield strength is too high; however it can be adjusted easily and scales down very quickly by being based on current health. I assumed the Q would be unreliable as a method of anti-kiting. The channel-time and interruptibility are in my opinion significant hindrances to its gap-close utility. I gave a scaling MS buff to the shield to protect against two forms of counterplay I deemed too crippling for Sion: 1) The enemy can go unpunished when ignoring Sion's shield and saving their burst for after his blast, debilitating future shields and negating his kit that requires time to have any effect 2) I did not want to underestimate the burst potential of a teamfight whereby Sion may lose his shield in the first couple seconds and be utterly useless after that, so I added a small base MS to the shield to guarantee at least some benefit out of it. In either of the above, Sion becomes essentially useless. I'd prefer a soft counter than an absolute counter. It's like if twenty champions in the game existed with an ability similar to Kayle's ult -- Zed would feel like trash tier. In Sion's case, there are countless team comps that can crush him with burst, so I feel obligated to ensure the counterplay remains in a healthy regime for both sides. That said, your mention of the 1v1 scenario does have me scared his W MS boost might be too abusable as a gap closer. I'll think about alternative solutions. I might remove the slow on his W and limit the MS boost to 4 seconds. Then I can buff his Q and make it feel better to use, which I was worried about. *Sion loses his only hard CC in favour of lots of slows and a (presumably brief for the sake of balance) knockback. As a bruiser this isn't exactly favourable given a bruiser's intended role in the team. I'm actually concerned it's too much anti-kite - it means little counterplay with regards to dealing with Sion 1v1 (can't kite me, can't fight me), but benefits his team less than Sion's current ability to briefly lock down targets. I believe trading hard CC for anti-kite seems a fair trade, as Mundo is proof that this does not preclude bruiser viability. Regarding benefiting his team less, I am ok with that. I didn't want Sion to be an initiator, nor have the CC of a tank. I think bruisers traditionally have too much at their disposal. I want Sion's strengths to be a) top class damage at close range and b) difficult to escape. That's why I gave the high channel time on his Q and a telegraphing animation like Jinx's Zap!, to limit its use as a functional initiation. I really wanted to confine his role. Regarding his anti-kite is stronger in a 1v1 scenario, the counterplay of single-handedly bursting his shield may not be available to some champions. However, when talking about champion strengths, I think it may be impossible in some cases to create universal counterplay that is supposed to be valid even when the other champion is weak to that strength. In other words, how can I make one facet of his character (like anti-kite) strong against the toughest match ups (like champs with strong disengage), without making him seem OP vs. a weak match up (like a champion with weak disengage)? On the other hand, I don't see how this Sion design is much different than Yi or Tryndamere who have similar 1v1 chase and kill potential in a split push scenario. Other bruisers like Shyvanna and Mundo have similar chase and kill potential, so Sion won't be unique in this regard even as a bruiser, but he will lack the initiation and free AoE dual-type damage (Sion can only reasonably itemize for one type) and strong early game of Shyvanna, as well as the tankiness and OP ult of Mundo. My goal isn't to be as OP as they are, but if he can be competitive, then the numbers can be tweaked from there. *A minor thing, but I personally feel that the passivisation of his health-gain means that he'll gain health too slowly - it's still not an immensely fast process when levelling E first as AD Sion. With this proposed change he'll farm health up much more slowly than currently, which is one of his major selling points. If this means limiting the kit in other ways to preserve one of the defining features of his kit at present, so be it in my opinion. This is a great point that I also considered. When I was thinking about this, I realized there are a multitude of ways to ultimately implement his passive, through which you can achieve any numbers you desire for almost any point in the game. My goal was for a 300 CS Sion to hit around 500 bonus health, with useful scaling at all points of the game. I have no idea what the optimal implementation would be, which would require testing. For example, one idea was to just make the passive a flat 2 HP at all points in the game. He certainly won't scale as hard as the current iteration, but I'm ok with that because I am also giving him a lot more tools to compensate. I actually originally had him at 1/2/3 per kill, without this "souls" mechanic that scales on total CS rather than each new kill. Right now, the souls mechanic seems cleaner. In all cases, shutting down Sion early will be desirable like with Nasus; failure to do this may make him feel OP late game. I think I am ok with this, although personally I would put a cap on it if I thought people wouldn't lambast such a suggestion. *The CD reduction on basic abilities in R is weird. It's probably partly a problem stemming from this determination to preserve AP Sion, but it also probably also gives AD Sion too much - enough AS and he'd have an unreasonably large uptime on his shield. I also have no idea how this is meant to interact with his E active. The AS from ult interacts with the E active by increasing stacks more quickly. The CDR has no effect on the E. The E active will ultimately operate a little weaker than Vayne's Tumble in terms of DPS. The CDR is weird, but as a passive effect requires no additional concentration on your part, while facilitating the rest of his kit. The feel I was going for with low cooldowns was an action-packed playstyle, with a visceral experience of being in the middle of a teamfight fighting as fast as you can to kill them before they kill you. I was extremely worried about shield uptime as well. I agree with you there, only I don't know what the right number would be without testing. *The numbers probably need tweaking. I think they're probably too high at the moment. The numbers definitely need tweaking! I did my best to convey what I intend their role to be, but with zero testing iterations, I have no idea what they should actually be. You're right here, I just don't know what to do about it sitting at my desk theorizing away. Thanks so much for the feedback. I really liked the point on the W MS bonus, as I hadn't given that enough thought prior, but also the points on some consistency and feel, and of course numbers were helpful. I am now strongly considering reorienting his W and buffing the feel of his Q. Great feedback! Blaisem (talk) 06:23, January 15, 2014 (UTC)